Template talk:Infobox command structure - Revision history

GavinRobinson: /* Parameter for citation? */

2017-01-16T19:38:51Z

‎Parameter for citation?

Mia: Suggestion re Sandall pages

2017-01-15T20:25:29Z

Suggestion re Sandall pages

Mia: /* Parameter for citation? */

2017-01-15T20:17:31Z

‎Parameter for citation?

GavinRobinson: /* Parameter for citation? */

2017-01-15T09:25:10Z

‎Parameter for citation?

Mia: /* Parameter for citation? */ On citation parameters

2017-01-08T22:45:46Z

‎Parameter for citation?: On citation parameters

GavinRobinson: bringing discussions up to date

2017-01-08T14:38:02Z

bringing discussions up to date

Mia: Updated link to Template:Infobox_service_record

2014-12-15T13:56:21Z

Updated link to Template:Infobox_service_record

GavinRobinson: /* Levels useful? */

2014-12-13T11:13:11Z

‎Levels useful?

GavinRobinson: /* Recruitment areas? */

2014-12-13T11:02:32Z

‎Recruitment areas?

Mia: /* Canonical names for battalions that change regiments? */ -

2014-12-11T19:19:33Z

‎Canonical names for battalions that change regiments?: -

@@ Line 134: / Line 134: @@
 ::::::: That looks good to me. The '2.0 2.1' in the reference section took me a moment to figure out, but overall it works well. --[[User:Mia|Mia]] ([[User talk:Mia|talk]]) 12:17, 15 January 2017 (PST)
 ::::::: Forgot to add - when I followed the link to the Sandall reference at http://www.5thlincs.investigationsofadog.co.uk/introductory.html#p1, the page I landed on didn't have a header to make the link between the reference and the text clear. Would it be possible to repeat the title and author on each page? --[[User:Mia|Mia]] ([[User talk:Mia|talk]]) 12:25, 15 January 2017 (PST)
 ===Automatic wikilinks?===

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:25, 15 January 2017
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	::::::: That looks good to me. The '2.0 2.1' in the reference section took me a moment to figure out, but overall it works well. --[[User:Mia\|Mia]] ([[User talk:Mia\|talk]]) 12:17, 15 January 2017 (PST)		::::::: That looks good to me. The '2.0 2.1' in the reference section took me a moment to figure out, but overall it works well. --[[User:Mia\|Mia]] ([[User talk:Mia\|talk]]) 12:17, 15 January 2017 (PST)
		+
		+	::::::: Forgot to add - when I followed the link to the Sandall reference at http://www.5thlincs.investigationsofadog.co.uk/introductory.html#p1, the page I landed on didn't have a header to make the link between the reference and the text clear. Would it be possible to repeat the title and author on each page? --[[User:Mia\|Mia]] ([[User talk:Mia\|talk]]) 12:25, 15 January 2017 (PST)

	===Automatic wikilinks?===		===Automatic wikilinks?===

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:17, 15 January 2017
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	:::::: I've put up a demo using {{tl\|infobox command structure2}} and [[1/5th Battalion Lincolnshire Regiment, UK]].--[[User:GavinRobinson\|GavinRobinson]] ([[User talk:GavinRobinson\|talk]]) 01:24, 15 January 2017 (PST)		:::::: I've put up a demo using {{tl\|infobox command structure2}} and [[1/5th Battalion Lincolnshire Regiment, UK]].--[[User:GavinRobinson\|GavinRobinson]] ([[User talk:GavinRobinson\|talk]]) 01:24, 15 January 2017 (PST)
		+
		+	::::::: That looks good to me. The '2.0 2.1' in the reference section took me a moment to figure out, but overall it works well. --[[User:Mia\|Mia]] ([[User talk:Mia\|talk]]) 12:17, 15 January 2017 (PST)

	===Automatic wikilinks?===		===Automatic wikilinks?===

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:25, 15 January 2017
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	::::: I've practically forgotten how to use ref tags myself! Cleaner data and ease-of-use sounds good. --[[User:Mia\|Mia]] ([[User talk:Mia\|talk]]) 14:45, 8 January 2017 (PST)		::::: I've practically forgotten how to use ref tags myself! Cleaner data and ease-of-use sounds good. --[[User:Mia\|Mia]] ([[User talk:Mia\|talk]]) 14:45, 8 January 2017 (PST)
		+
		+	:::::: I've put up a demo using {{tl\|infobox command structure2}} and [[1/5th Battalion Lincolnshire Regiment, UK]].--[[User:GavinRobinson\|GavinRobinson]] ([[User talk:GavinRobinson\|talk]]) 01:24, 15 January 2017 (PST)

	===Automatic wikilinks?===		===Automatic wikilinks?===

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:45, 8 January 2017
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	I now think it would be better to have an extra parameter for citing sources, and the template could automatically turn it into a footnote by adding a ref tag. That would make the data cleaner and help users who don't know how to use ref tags. This infobox would probably only need one footnote to cover all the facts in it, but separating footnotes would be more complicated for {{tl\|infobox military unit}}. --[[User:GavinRobinson\|GavinRobinson]] ([[User talk:GavinRobinson\|talk]]) 06:35, 8 January 2017 (PST)		I now think it would be better to have an extra parameter for citing sources, and the template could automatically turn it into a footnote by adding a ref tag. That would make the data cleaner and help users who don't know how to use ref tags. This infobox would probably only need one footnote to cover all the facts in it, but separating footnotes would be more complicated for {{tl\|infobox military unit}}. --[[User:GavinRobinson\|GavinRobinson]] ([[User talk:GavinRobinson\|talk]]) 06:35, 8 January 2017 (PST)
		+
		+	::::: I've practically forgotten how to use ref tags myself! Cleaner data and ease-of-use sounds good. --[[User:Mia\|Mia]] ([[User talk:Mia\|talk]]) 14:45, 8 January 2017 (PST)

	===Automatic wikilinks?===		===Automatic wikilinks?===

@@ Line 15: / Line 15: @@
 :::: For now there's nothing to stop you repeating an infobox to allow for two parents - it's one advantage of not modelling directly as database relationships! --[[User:Mia|Mia]] ([[User talk:Mia|talk]]) 14:05, 23 November 2014 (PST)
 === Recruitment areas? ===
@@ Line 30: / Line 32: @@
 Actually I was wrong before and right the first time: New Army should be a branch, because Becke classifies every British division as Regular Army, New Army or Territorial, and some of his regular divisions were formed during the war, so it's clearly possible to make the distinction. Some things will be unknown until someone finds more evidence, but that's no problem at all for a wiki. Anyway, this doesn't affect data structures because it's just a value for an existing parameter. If there's eventually an infobox for organisation changes, it can still record more details about the creation of a unit.--[[User:GavinRobinson|GavinRobinson]] ([[User talk:GavinRobinson|talk]]) 03:02, 13 December 2014 (PST)
 === Canonical names for battalions that change regiments? ===
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 ::: This is resolved, see ([http://collaborativecollections.org/WorldWarOne/index.php?title=Template%3AInfobox_military_unit&diff=874&oldid=713 diff]) --[[User:Mia|Mia]] ([[User talk:Mia|talk]]) 11:19, 11 December 2014 (PST)
 === Unit name changes and restructures ===
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 :: This is resolved, see ([http://collaborativecollections.org/WorldWarOne/index.php?title=Template%3AInfobox_military_unit&diff=874&oldid=713 diff]) --[[User:Mia|Mia]] ([[User talk:Mia|talk]]) 11:19, 11 December 2014 (PST)
 ===Levels useful?===
@@ Line 70: / Line 78: @@
 To make sure that levels work for every nation, I suggest basing them on the continental system used by the US, French and German armies. In the continental system, tactical and administrative hierarchies are completely unified, and the division is the main group for both. A regiment is a level between battalion and brigade, and all battalions of a regiment operate together. Typically a division has 2 brigades, a brigade has 2 regiments and a regiment has 3 battalions. That means that brigades in British Empire forces are equivalent to continental regiments, and the normal British hierarchy has no equivalent to the continental brigade. It might be a bit confusing if British brigades are classified as regiment level, but the alternative is not being able to represent continental brigades. Maybe level could be explicitly labelled "Continental level"?--[[User:GavinRobinson|GavinRobinson]] ([[User talk:GavinRobinson|talk]]) 03:13, 13 December 2014 (PST)
 ===Parameter for citation?===
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 :::: You can see it in action on [[The Royal Canadian Regiment]] (and some earlier ones). A simple template for common sources would be brilliant.
 ===Automatic wikilinks?===
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 :: Yes. IIRC that's a matter of fiddling with the infobox template code, I've added it to my To Do list. --[[User:Mia|Mia]] ([[User talk:Mia|talk]]) 06:05, 6 December 2014 (PST)
 ===Grandparent parameter?===
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 :::: One reason 'level' is there is so that you can include grandparent/grandchildren units on the page. It does mean repeating information that should ideally be on the parent/child unit page so in practice it might never happen. --[[User:Mia|Mia]] ([[User talk:Mia|talk]]) 09:35, 9 December 2014 (PST)
 ===What does name do?===
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 :::::: I'm looking to see whether the command structure and other related infoboxes should be child or subboxes - that'd save repeating the name (though it could still be stored, even if not displayed). The main infobox already uses a magic word to get the unit name. --[[User:Mia|Mia]] ([[User talk:Mia|talk]]) 09:35, 9 December 2014 (PST)

@@ Line 2: / Line 2: @@
 === Allowing for administrative and tactical parent relationships with units ===
-There's an existing [[Template:Infobox service record]] on Wikipedia which 'may be used to summarize information about an individual military unit's or ship's service history', perhaps this should be extended to include tactical command instead a version of [[Template:Infobox command structure]]?
+There's an existing [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Infobox_service_record Template:Infobox service record] on Wikipedia which 'may be used to summarize information about an individual military unit's or ship's service history', perhaps this should be extended to include tactical command instead a version of [[Template:Infobox command structure]]?
 I've started editing [[21st (Reserve) Battalion Lancashire Fusiliers, British infantry]] to test the infoboxes. --[[User:Mia|Mia]] ([[User talk:Mia|talk]]) 11:26, 19 November 2014 (PST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:13, 13 December 2014
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	:::: Including the subordinate/child level does mean repeating information (assuming each child unit has a page eventually) so it's a balance between not repeating information and having them easily discoverable on the page --[[User:Mia\|Mia]] ([[User talk:Mia\|talk]]) 10:07, 8 December 2014 (PST)		:::: Including the subordinate/child level does mean repeating information (assuming each child unit has a page eventually) so it's a balance between not repeating information and having them easily discoverable on the page --[[User:Mia\|Mia]] ([[User talk:Mia\|talk]]) 10:07, 8 December 2014 (PST)
		+
		+	Levels should work fine for most tactical relationships but need to be optional because there are some units that won't fit (eg hospitals) and British admin hierarchies are just too bizarre to be classified in any more detail than a thing is a parent of another thing.
		+
		+	To make sure that levels work for every nation, I suggest basing them on the continental system used by the US, French and German armies. In the continental system, tactical and administrative hierarchies are completely unified, and the division is the main group for both. A regiment is a level between battalion and brigade, and all battalions of a regiment operate together. Typically a division has 2 brigades, a brigade has 2 regiments and a regiment has 3 battalions. That means that brigades in British Empire forces are equivalent to continental regiments, and the normal British hierarchy has no equivalent to the continental brigade. It might be a bit confusing if British brigades are classified as regiment level, but the alternative is not being able to represent continental brigades. Maybe level could be explicitly labelled "Continental level"?--[[User:GavinRobinson\|GavinRobinson]] ([[User talk:GavinRobinson\|talk]]) 03:13, 13 December 2014 (PST)

	===Parameter for citation?===		===Parameter for citation?===

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:02, 13 December 2014
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	:::None of this data will come from WO 95 imports so it can be left until later.--[[User:GavinRobinson\|GavinRobinson]] ([[User talk:GavinRobinson\|talk]]) 05:03, 27 November 2014 (PST)		:::None of this data will come from WO 95 imports so it can be left until later.--[[User:GavinRobinson\|GavinRobinson]] ([[User talk:GavinRobinson\|talk]]) 05:03, 27 November 2014 (PST)
		+
		+	Actually I was wrong before and right the first time: New Army should be a branch, because Becke classifies every British division as Regular Army, New Army or Territorial, and some of his regular divisions were formed during the war, so it's clearly possible to make the distinction. Some things will be unknown until someone finds more evidence, but that's no problem at all for a wiki. Anyway, this doesn't affect data structures because it's just a value for an existing parameter. If there's eventually an infobox for organisation changes, it can still record more details about the creation of a unit.--[[User:GavinRobinson\|GavinRobinson]] ([[User talk:GavinRobinson\|talk]]) 03:02, 13 December 2014 (PST)

	=== Canonical names for battalions that change regiments? ===		=== Canonical names for battalions that change regiments? ===

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:19, 11 December 2014
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	:: I've been thinking about an infobox for names. Are units likely to have more than one nickname in WWI? If it's just one, I can add it to the main military unit infobox, if more than one it might be best in a repeatable infobox. (Or in repeatable pairs within a single infobox) --[[User:Mia\|Mia]] ([[User talk:Mia\|talk]])		:: I've been thinking about an infobox for names. Are units likely to have more than one nickname in WWI? If it's just one, I can add it to the main military unit infobox, if more than one it might be best in a repeatable infobox. (Or in repeatable pairs within a single infobox) --[[User:Mia\|Mia]] ([[User talk:Mia\|talk]])
		+
		+	::: This is resolved, see ([http://collaborativecollections.org/WorldWarOne/index.php?title=Template%3AInfobox_military_unit&diff=874&oldid=713 diff]) --[[User:Mia\|Mia]] ([[User talk:Mia\|talk]]) 11:19, 11 December 2014 (PST)

	=== Unit name changes and restructures ===		=== Unit name changes and restructures ===